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| French polish question http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=11546 |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:46 am ] |
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I am doing my first french polish finish on a classical I am building. Aside from the pore filling (arghhh!!!) I am getting a nice build on the back sides and neck. My problem is the top.I am on my third session and it just doesn't seem to want to build on the top (carp spruce). I am doing the exact same thing as on the rest of the guitar,so naturally I think it has something to do with the texture of the spruce. Any advice from the french polisherati?? |
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| Author: | SimonF [ Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:26 pm ] |
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Hi Brad, It is hard to know exactly what is wrong without seeing your guitar and your technique. Shellac sticks to just about everything - so I'm guessing there is a technique problem more than a potential issue with your Carpathian top. 1) My initial suggestion is to inquire about your muneca and what it is made of. Not all munecas are created equal. Lamb's wool is the best core and it does make the process easier. I have also found that a well worn cotton men's dress shirt is awesome covering material - much better than muslin, IMHO. 2) The second suggestion would be to check out Milburn's online tutorial. Specifically about loading the muneca. You might be adding too much alcohol and spiriting away the freshly deposited shellac. Also, I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to do a blot test on a piece of paper after loading the muneca and before you touch the finish. Too much and you will destroy your finish in seconds and too little will take you forever to deposit a finish of suitable thickness. I charge my muneca many, many times during the course of a session and tend to favor going with a drier pad than a wetter one. You can really press into the finish with a drier muneca which will make for a harder final finish. Let us know if this doesn't help. There is always the possibility that there is an unknown issue with the top - although, I do think this is unlikely. And yes, pore filling the traditional route is a major headache. I suggest using epoxy in the future - it will make the French Polishing experience much more enjoyable. Once you get the hang of it, there is no other finish that is as good tonally and visually. Of course, that is just my opinion. Peace Out, Simon |
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| Author: | SimonF [ Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:30 pm ] |
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Hi Brad, I just read Hesh's response. That is a definite possiblity as well and might be the most obvious solution. My technique usually has me having a decent gloss finish after the second session - but this will vary from person to person. You might just want to try a couple more sessions on the top - you can do a couple a day with no problem and see if you haven't gotten a film to develop. Best of luck, Simon |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:43 pm ] |
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Simon, I am using Milburnes tutorial as my "bible". I am using well worn,soft cotton tee shirt material for the covering of the muneca with a rolled up gauze interior. I think I am loading the muneca properly-I have been doing the blot test as well. It just seems to be working "perfectly" on the back,sides and neck. I had a decent gloss after the first session. I will try a few more sessions and see what happens. I have to agree with you,that it is the most beautiful finish-really makes the wood "pop". Thanks, Brad |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:51 pm ] |
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Hesh, I used regular pore filler for the back and sides-hopefully a couple more sessions should bring the top up to the gloss of the rest of it. Thanks, Brad |
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| Author: | SimonF [ Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:10 pm ] |
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Brad, based on what you've said. If you are getting good results on the back & sides - it should work on the top, eventually. What Hesh said about the pore filler does make a lot of sense to me. Please let us know how it turns out and if we can be of any help. For what it is worth, I learned from the MIlburn tutorial as well - although, my schedule is a bit different. I do 8 sessions. Two sessions each day and each session takes me about 2 hours. After the 8 sessions, I wait one week (very important to wait) before leveling with 600 grit paper and then start the glazing process. I do 6 glazing sessions. I wait 4 days and then use Meguiar's Plastic Polish and then Plastic Cleaner. It is a lot of work but the resulting finish is beautiful. Peace Out, Simon |
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| Author: | KenH [ Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:26 pm ] |
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It did seem to take me longer to get the finish on the top also. After I had let it sit for several days with nothing being done to it and then coming back, things really sped up and I was able to get the shine I was looking for. |
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| Author: | rich altieri [ Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:06 pm ] |
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How do you guys do a session? By that I mean, do you do the back and one side and the the top and the second side to allow for working the body or do you do the back and finish it, and then the sides??? WHat is your order. |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:51 am ] |
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Rich, I consider a session going over the entire guitar. I start with the back,then do both sides then the top,then the neck. I work on a piece of paper and the shellac dries so fast I can turn it on the side with no problem. |
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| Author: | rich altieri [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:46 pm ] |
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Thanks Brad I may be making more of this than needed. I read somewhere that recommended to do back and one side and then do top and other side. I seem to have slight trouble handling the body during the process. Thanks for your response |
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| Author: | rich altieri [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:52 pm ] |
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I am the worst at following directions. Here is what I do. Appreciate any feedback. Start with 2lb cut shellac and fairly dry muneca. Start with small circles and expand to larger circular pattern and then finish with strokes following grain. Then I go over again with a couple drops of alcohol loaded into the muneca to remove some of the marks and swirls following same pattern. A session for me will be two times the above process. I do this 4-5 times and then sand with felt block and 500 grit paper (water). Last session I switch to 1 lb cut and do the same as above. Seem to be getting good results - mirror finish with little or no buffing required although I just bought some fine polishing compound from LMI to see if I can remove the final imperfections by hand. How does this sound to those of you who have experience? |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:42 am ] |
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The only thing I know of that would be different is if you were using too much alcohol when padding you can cause the shellac to thin enough to penetrate the spruce. However if you did the sealing as described in the Milburn tutorial that should not be the issue. The other is if you use an extra wet pad, either shellac or alcohol you can actually remove more shellac than you lay down. When this is happening it is not likely to happen consistent over the top but rather in the areas where you start each load. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:20 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Hodges_Guitars]
It did seem to take me longer to get the finish on the top also. After I had let it sit for several days with nothing being done to it and then coming back, things really sped up and I was able to get the shine I was looking for. [/QUOTE]You need to allow the previous shellac to gas off. This should take about 15 min. The longer you allow the better to a point. I like to wait about 1 hour. |
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